3
\$\begingroup\$

This question was asked yesterday. I answered it and, about 2 or 3 hours later, my answer was deleted by Dave Tweed. However, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with my answer and it gets right to the point of the matter in my opinion. Good answer or bad answer is a side issue but it shouldn't have been jumped on so quickly. The lack of a measured response really irked me.

So, the issue (to me) is this: There are many, many poor answers (and poor questions) that do deserve to be deleted in the fullness of time. Some really, really crappy answers get deleted and down-voted fairly quickly but my answer is not in that category at all.

There are plenty of very sub-standard answers on this site that are not deleted so, it looks like double standards - mediocre answers normally take a couple of days to receive the delete treatment but my significantly-better-than-mediocre answer got blitzed in a couple of hours.

In that period of time that my answer was still "alive" it received three upvotes (net) - these guys were happy with it. The trouble is that I would probably have received a bunch more upvotes had my answer not been deleted so officiously and, this appears to be something that Dave Tweed has in the back of his mind. He recently accused me of (paraphrasing due to memory difficulties) "being too interested in collecting votes" when I hinted to someone (in a comment) that there was an "answer-accept" button they could press.

Later yesterday this question was answered by Dave Tweed and I pointed out to him that if my answer was deserving of deletion then his should be - he deleted that first comment and I note that his answer was deleted some time later by Nick Alexeev. That question is now fully deleted but the link still works. This is a proven double standard.

Dave Tweed and I have crossed swords three times in the last few weeks (all initiated by him) and it is starting to look like some kind of vendetta against me.

I am not happy with his treatment of me.


Here is what this site gives as advice to avoid deletion: -

Answers that do not fundamentally answer the question may be removed. This includes answers that are:

  • commentary on the question or other answers
  • asking another, different question
  • “thanks!” or “me too!” responses
  • exact duplicates of other answers
  • barely more than a link to an external site
  • not even a partial answer to the actual question

Which of these categories listed above did my answer fall into?

Clearly, the first 3 are not relevant and #4 didn't apply. #5 doesn't apply because there were no links which leaves #6, quote "not even a partial answer to the actual question".

I can only assume it is #6 (or maybe there is a secret moderator-list somewhere?). I think someone does need to clarify this because my answer could certainly not be described as #6 i.e. it could have been fuller (agreed) but it certainly wasn't "not even a partial answer".

So, rocking the old boat doesn't really get anyone anywhere it seems. Protect the system first, then protect the administrators then maybe protect the truth. THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE FOLKS.

| |
\$\endgroup\$
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ In the interest of full disclosure, I explained what was wrong, and then I converted your answer to a comment, which YOU then almost immediately deleted. You also stated that you wanted to improve your original answer, and I agreed that it could be reinstated if that occurred. Instead, you added an irrelevant rant about persecution. \$\endgroup\$ – Dave Tweed Jan 29 '16 at 12:21
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ You gleefully exercised your right to delete that answer without giving me any reasonable length of time to make corrections. You could have so easily left a comment and this could have been conducted like gentleman - I would have modified the answer and this would be history but no, you had to try and make an example of me when there are thousands of worse examples every week that languish without deletion for several days if not weeks. You were picking on me. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 16:53
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @Andyaka The site doesn't work that way - we don't "take it on faith" that someone will improve their content to be acceptable. We also close questions without waiting for a chance for the OP to respond. You had the option for this to be "conducted like gentlemen" and instead you flagged posts for revenge and appended a tirade to your original answer. \$\endgroup\$ – W5VO Jan 29 '16 at 18:17
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ If you see "thousands" of worse examples, then you do something about it - vote for deletion, vote for close. These posts "languish" because it takes someone flagging it for something to happen instead of the community taking care of them. \$\endgroup\$ – W5VO Jan 29 '16 at 18:18
  • \$\begingroup\$ It is my belief that my answer was good therefore an example of something that is "worse" clearly doesn't mean it is bad. Those examples that I do see as bad I do flag and, like I said about the incorrect stevenvh answer, I got told it wouldn't be deleted - there's another double standard. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 18:23
  • \$\begingroup\$ Ahh, well it's easy to say why stevenvh's answer flag was declined - there is a specific flag declining reason built into the mod interface that reads: declined - flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer \$\endgroup\$ – W5VO Jan 29 '16 at 18:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ Me flagging that answer is irrelevant - the answer he gave contains information that is wrong - how can THAT answer "survive" deletion while my answer gets deleted? If you had stumbled upon that answer in the normal course of the day and recognized it as being flawed would you or should you delete it? \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 18:37
  • \$\begingroup\$ I agree that you flagging that answer is irrelevant - a "this is wrong" flag is likely to be declined because there is that clear "decline" reason in the flag UI. In general, I delete very wrong answers. The "proper" course of action for users is to down-vote the wrong answer, but that rarely seems to happen. \$\endgroup\$ – W5VO Jan 29 '16 at 18:53
  • \$\begingroup\$ That being said, if you want to have a discussion on whether the elected mods are too aggressive in deleting answers in general, that would probably be more productive. \$\endgroup\$ – W5VO Jan 29 '16 at 19:04
  • \$\begingroup\$ I don't really have anything else to say; I think I've made my points (accepted or not). \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 19:14
4
\$\begingroup\$

Your right. It shouldn't be deleted.

Sure, it could be a comment, but it can also be an answer. Most short answers can be both. It directly answered the question. In a bad, obtuse way (Imho). It's a bad answer, and bad answers are supposed to be down voted, not deleted. Only Non-answers should be deleted.

Reviewing low quality posts: when to delete

What are the guidelines for reviewing?

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/help/deleted-answers

Your's was not a comment:

[ANS] If an answer is actually a comment (such as asking for more info, thanks!, etc.) [possibly flag]

It would fall under this:

[ANS] Note that wrong answers should not be deleted: deletion is for answers that “aren't even wrong”.

Whether your answer is subjectively bad or wrong, well, that's for the up and down votes to decide, but it should not have been deleted. That it got multiple up votes would indicate it's not subjectively bad by community standards.

The linked answer by David does, imho seem to be more of a comment than an answer. It's a negative answer, i.e. "you can't do x y and z", and "the second part of your question is unrelated".

| |
\$\endgroup\$
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Thank you that seems clear. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Feb 5 '16 at 9:40
1
\$\begingroup\$

There is no double standard. We have rules on this site: Answers must address the question, and comments must be relevant to the posts to which they're attached. In your recent quest to gather reputation points, you have started to cross the line on these rules, and my role as a moderator is to enforce them.

I'm not picking on you specifically; I do the same for everyone else on the site. And I've only acted on a tiny fraction of the large number of posts and comments you've made in the last few weeks. But I see them all, and I'm noticing a trend that troubles me. I'm just trying to provide feedback that will keep it from getting worse.

I get it — you currently have the second-highest overall score on the site, and you're gunning for #1. But don't let the quality of your posts suffer in the process.

| |
\$\endgroup\$
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ You are missing the point - I answered a question yesterday that you deleted on some basis that I disagree with and then later on you made an answer that I would describe as "less helpful to the OP than mine". Your answer got deleted by someone but, the point is, you are either unable to read the rules to yourself or you have double standards. Either way I am seriously suggesting you are not a good fit as a moderator (despite me voting for you a couple of years ago or so). \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 16:48
  • \$\begingroup\$ You should have exercised patience at the very least on that answer and given me a few hours to return and I would certainly have added a few more words but no, because you think I'm on a quest it seems you have to try and stop me. That's what it is coming across as i.e. some form of vendetta. Step down is my advice. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 16:50
  • \$\begingroup\$ "I've only acted on a tiny fraction of the large number of posts and comments you've made in the last few weeks" - WTF does that mean - is this a threat dear boy? Have you got a backlog of my answers that you are going to put thru the delete button machine? \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 17:15
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ No, it isn't a threat, just an admission that MOST of your posts stay within the rules. Indeed, many of your posts are very high quality, and I want to see them stay that way. @W5VO explained in his answer what was wrong with your "answer". And deletion does not preclude improvement and reinstatement, as you well know. \$\endgroup\$ – Dave Tweed Jan 29 '16 at 17:25
  • \$\begingroup\$ BTW I'm not gunning for #1, I'd never catch Olin so why bother. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 17:32
  • \$\begingroup\$ But you only very recently became #2. Maybe that was your goal, and now things will settle down again. \$\endgroup\$ – Dave Tweed Jan 29 '16 at 17:36
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ My goals, aims and influences are none of anyone's business until I make them so. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 17:48
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ Maybe not, but your overt behavior on this site is very much the business of the moderators. We try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and that sometimes involves the very difficult task of "reading between the lines" in order to infer what someone's motivations might be. We also look at larger patterns of behavior that we know to have become problems in the past -- look at the references in @W5VO's answer. But in any case, we're reacting to what you write, not what you think -- so be careful about what you write. \$\endgroup\$ – Dave Tweed Jan 29 '16 at 18:07
  • \$\begingroup\$ "your overt behavior on this site is very much the business of the moderators" - what precisely does that mean? \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 18:12
  • \$\begingroup\$ I'm sorry ... which words are you having trouble with? \$\endgroup\$ – Dave Tweed Jan 29 '16 at 18:14
1
\$\begingroup\$

It sounds like you want a double standard, just in your favor. You've thrown a lot of separate issues together.

Your answer was very short, and didn't answer the question. You posted three equations, no explanation, nothing. Further, the equations you provided are not sufficient to solve the problem. Below is the text of your answer when it was deleted:

Force = mass x acceleration

Force x distance the object moved = work done = energy

Force x distance / time = energy per second = power.

That's a comment. It was converted into a comment by Dave after it was flagged. I agree with this course of action.


You bring up Dave's answer as a "double standard", and I disagree with your assessment. The question was a zero effort homework question (my opinion). I don't like this type of question, and I don't mind seeing guidance instead of a full answer. I also don't disagree with changing Dave's answer into a comment as well, as it is pretty thin. Nick changed it to a comment, and I agree with it as a stand-alone decision.

Now whether your flag message came off as vengeful and petty is another matter. Revenge flagging isn't cool.

This is a plain example of when an answer should be a comment. I think YOU know what I'm saying Mr. Tweed.


...it shouldn't have been jumped on so quickly.

There is no "snooze" button when moderating. We (mods) act on valid flags when they occur. I can't count on you to improve your answer, nor do I know if or when you plan on editing.

Posting short "answers" to get something in quick is gaming the system (see the "Fastest Gun in the West" problem).


And stop bugging users about their accept rate. There's a reason why it's no longer displayed below the user's picture on questions they ask. See the following Meta.SE post: Let's stop displaying a user's accept rate . Your "gentle nudges" are coming off more like badgering someone for a tip.

| |
\$\endgroup\$
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ The core of the question asked was this "If I decrease rpm and increase torque with the same ratio of electric wheelchair motor via reductors, can it move up to 540 kg? Or does the max weight that a motor can move depend on another factors? How can I measure this?" My answer unambigously demonstrates that a limited amount of power can move anything. How can this ever be described as "not even a partial answer". How can it? \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 17:22
  • \$\begingroup\$ Yes I am quite happy to admit is was a revenge flag but what other course of action was open to me - it was a prime example of a double standard. I recently flagged one of StevenVH's answers becaue it was plainly wrong and badly wrong to boot. WTF happened - I got told some cock and bull reason for it not to be deleted - have you freaking guys lost your sense of freaking purpose? \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 17:26
  • \$\begingroup\$ "Your "gentle nudges" are coming off more like badgering someone for a tip" - there are several people I've "gently nudged" and sure, some of them might benefit my reputation wise but there are others that I have nudged where there has been no benefit to me at all. The link to the post about user rate appears to me to suggest that "if any comments are encouraged at all, then they are of this soft variety" i.e. the comments I have made DO seem to be in order if maybe more frequent than envisaged. I therefore don't accept what you say. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 17:39
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ "Your answer was very short". Last night I gave an equally short answer that received upvotes and acceptance by the OP and TBH I was struggling to make it that long: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/214061/… - it would have been sufficient, as an answer to just use the first sentance (12 words). I therefore DO NOT accept that this is a fair criticism. I think you ought to state which of the 6 criteria my answer met that dictated it was relevant for deletion. I'm not buying what you are saying. \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 17:44
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ @Andyaka Short length correlates with poor answers, but it isn't causal. Moderating takes judgement calls, and in my judgement, you did not answer the question at all. A partial answer would be addressing one part of a multi-part question. You provided equations that may be relevant to constructing an answer. We are left with dots that must be connected, and yet you see perfectly clearly how they are to be connected because you know the whole story - in your head. \$\endgroup\$ – W5VO Jan 29 '16 at 18:11
  • \$\begingroup\$ I don't buy that either - three people (at least) upvoted that answer but maybe these are mind readers and could therefore see the "whole story". \$\endgroup\$ – Andy aka Jan 29 '16 at 18:15
  • 1
    \$\begingroup\$ I think the biggest problem is that whether the answer is a comment or an answer, is subjective. This one sits on the fence, so the heavy handedness of the mod hammer, and follow up replies cause the issue. That's the problem with a single-person decision. It be less of a problem if it had multiple flags or down votes or delete votes, as a community consensus action. \$\endgroup\$ – Passerby Feb 5 '16 at 1:40

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .